Thursday, June 14, 2012

Atheist leaders and immoral relationships

The website Submitted to a Candid World is written by an agnostic and the website was praised by the prominent atheist PZ Myers in the past.

On April 20, 2012 an article appeared in Submitted to a Candid World which declared:
"Several of my close friends — coincidentally, all extremely intelligent, math/science oriented, and leaders in the freethought/rationality/atheist communities — find themselves practicing and promoting an arrangement they term “polyamory.” Essentially, this describes a post-jealousy, highly rationalized state where participants date each other, and several others simultaneously...

In the ideal polyamorous relationship, one man is seriously “dating” several women, each of whom is in turn dating several men.

Atheism, polyamory, the bad reputation of atheists, and the decline of atheism

Several leaders of the "freethought"/atheist community are practicing and promoting polyamory. This is not going to help the poor reputation that atheism already has among the public. The Mormons promoted bigamy for a while and later retracted their position due to the public outrage.

Of course, engaging in and promoting practices such as polyamory is one of the many reasons why atheism has such a bad reputation in the world. The atheist Sam Harris admitted has advocated that atheists no longer call themselves atheists and declared concerning the label of atheist "It's right next to child molester as a designation."

It is estimated by researchers at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary that everyday there are 800 less atheists in the world and 83,000 more people calling themselves Christians in the world. Of course, this trend is expected to continue. While various atheists and atheist leaders are engaging in such practices as polymory which leads to unstable relationships, there are many Bible believing Christians who are raising families and spreading their faith.

Eric Kaufman is a professor at The Birkbeck College, University of London. Kaufmann using a multitude of demographic studies argues in an academic paper entitled Shall the Righteous Inherit the Earth? Demography and Politics in the Twenty-First Century the decline of atheism in terms of its global adherents is an established trend that will persist for the foreseeable future and the rate of decline will accelerate. In the Western World, due to immigration and the higher birth rates of religious people, Kaufman writes: "Committed religious populations are growing in the West, and will reverse the march of secularism before 2050."

Atheism and sexual immorality

The Barna Group found that atheists and agnostics in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use; excessive drinking; sexual relationships outside of marriage; abortion; cohabitating with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage; obscene language; gambling; pornography and obscene sexual behavior; and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality.

Evolutionary belief and moral decay: A study

Since World War II the staunchest promoters of evolutionary thought have been atheists. A research study done by Australian National University involving 1,535 people found that belief in evolution is related to moral decay.

In an article entitled Morals decline linked to evolution David Catchpoole writes:

For years, many people have scoffed at any suggestion that the evils in society could be linked with the teaching of the theory of evolution. But new research has confirmed what Bible-believers have known all along—that the rising acceptance of Darwin’s theory is related to declining morality in the community.

The research survey of 1535 people, conducted by the Australian National University, revealed that belief in evolution is associated with moral permissiveness. Darwin himself apparently feared that belief in evolution by the common man would lead to social decay. The survey showed that people who believed in evolution were more likely to be in favour of premarital sex than those who rejected Darwin’s theory. Another issue which highlighted the contrast between the effect of evolutionary ideas and that of biblical principles was that Darwinians were reported to be ‘especially tolerant’ of abortion.

In identifying the primary factors determining these differences in community attitudes, the author of the research report, Dr Jonathan Kelley, said: ‘The single most important influence after church attendance is the theory of evolution.’

Atheism and unstable relationships

Creation Ministries International has a very informative article on atheism written by the Christian apologist Mariano Grinbank which echoes the information given above.

Grinbank writes concerning atheism and marriage:
“According to Barna, ‘Forty-two percent of adults who associate with a faith other than Christianity had co-habited, while atheists were the most likely to do so (51%).

“It is critical to stress that it is a well known fact that cohabiters experience a very high number of ‘breakups’ before getting married. ‘Millions of people … believe that cohabitation is a prelude to marriage. And for many, it is. However, Smock reports that 45% of cohabitations break up with no marriage. Another 10% continue cohabiting.’

“Barna did not include this enlightening fact in his research. Thus, if 21% of atheists divorce after marriage, and 45 % break up once or more before marriage, what we have is the astounding rate of about 66% of atheist couples experiencing ‘at least’ one break up. If, however, the number is 37%, then we have a shocking figure of 82% …

“What needs mentioning is the fact that many atheists do not cohabit as a prelude to marriage. They in fact see cohabitation as ‘equivalent’ to any marriage relationship … These break ups were not included in the Barna research …

“The appellation ‘Christian’ a Christian does not make. There are great numbers of people in this world who call themselves ‘Christians’ but have never internalized the teachings of Jesus Christ …

“Recently the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life has published its mammoth study on Religion in America based on 35,000 interviews. The results are quite enlightening in further elucidating the topic of atheism and divorce. According to the Pew Forum a whopping 37% of atheists never marry as opposed to 19% of the American population, 17% of Protestants and 17% of Catholics.(9) How enlightening… Not only do atheists cohabit and break up in very large numbers, they also do not marry in very large numbers.” [all emphasis by Caputo]

Vox Day further notes:

“the 2001 ARIS study … a much larger study that reaches precisely the opposite conclusion … according to ARIS 2001 more than half of all atheists and agnostics don’t get married … If one correctly excludes the never-married from the calculation, then atheists are 58.7 percent more likely to get divorced than Pentecostals and Baptists, the two born-again Christian groups with the highest rate of divorce, and more than twice as likely to get divorced than Christians in general.” and polyamory is an atheist website devoted to the issue of polyamory in relation to atheism., where this Question Evolution! Campaign blog is hosted, has a statistics feature which among other things gives the total views of a blog in a given day. For the day of 5/13/12 (which is the last full day that has statistics for) this blog received 1,202 total views according to

This Question evolution! blog, which has not yet been heavily promoted, has an Alexa traffic rank of 2,178,256 as of June 14, 2012. The website has an Alexa traffic rank of 2,276,133 as of June 14, 2012.

Wikipedia on polyamory

Wikipedia was founded by the atheist Jimmy Wales and the agnostic Larry Sanger. Wikipedia has a pro-atheism/evolution slant.

For example, the current Wikipedia article on atheism is very flattering to atheism. As of June 14, 2012 the Wikipedia atheism article does not explicitly mention the tens of millions who died under atheist communist regimes although it does allude to it. Dr. R. J. Rummel, professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii, is the scholar who first coined the term democide (death by government). Dr. R. J. Rummel's mid estimate regarding the loss of life due to communism is that communism caused the death of approximately 110,286,000 people between 1917 and 1987. In addition, Wikipedia has no current article on militant atheism and deleted an article written on militant atheism.

As of June 14, 2012 Wikipedia had this flattering description of polyamory:

Polyamory, often abbreviated as poly, is often described as consensual, ethical, or responsible non-monogamy. The word is sometimes used in a broader sense to refer to sexual or romantic relationships that are not sexually exclusive, though there is disagreement on how broadly it applies; an emphasis on ethics, honesty, and transparency all around is widely regarded as the crucial defining characteristic.

Atheist Nexus and polyamory

The website Atheist Nexus bills itself as "The World’s Largest Coalition of Nontheists and Nontheist Communities." Like many atheist websites as of late, it has seen a large drop in web traffic (see the article Internet atheism: The Thrill is gone!). The website traffic tracking company indicated that as of 5/12/12 it received 12,543 unique visitors a month.

The website Atheist Nexus has an entire group devoted to polyamory. As of June 14, 2012 the polyamory group had 89 members.

Below is a web traffic graph of the website Atheist Nexus according to the web traffic tracking company and the graph covers the time period from 5/2011 to 5/2012:

Hosing the evolutionist and atheist rats off the deck of the ship

Are you against the immorality promoted by atheists and evolutionists? Get involved in the Question Evolution! Campaign its 15 questions for evolutionists and help hose evolutionist pseudoscience and immorality from the public square.

Our Question Evolution Campaign group is going on another recruiting drive and we are committed to help create a high power Question Evolution! hose which will hose evolutionist/atheist rats off the deck of the public square.

Related resources:

Morality and ethics

Can we be good without God?


  1. Polyamory does not sound like something I - or most people, for that matter - would choose, but where in the Bible is this forbidden? There has been no evidence given that the people mentioned to be in polyamorous relationships have violated Biblical law, only speculation about what this could possibly lead to.

    If the author chooses to respond to this comment, I request that the response stay on topic.

  2. Joebob,

    The Apostle Paul was clear in his qualifications to be a Christian leader/pastor that he is to be the husband of one wife (See: 1 Timothy 3:2, 12 and Titus 1:6). Of course, a single man could have a place of leadership as well as Paul was not married at the time he became an apostle although he may have been married previously and been a widower.

    God's gold standard is monogamy or to remain single. It appears as if several atheist leaders and many atheists do not have the same standard.

    The prophet Moses wrote: “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24).

    Jesus does say concerning divorce that he allowed it in the Old Testament due to the hardness of men's hearts (Matthew 19:8). Perhaps, some of the cases of polygamy in the Old Testament were allowed for the same reason (King David and King Solomon for example).

    Also, I believe that careful Bible exegesis indicates that the New Testament allows for divorce in the case of a spouse committing adultery (Matthew 5:32 and 19:9).

  3. There is a big difference between dating several women and marriage. You really have to stretch the truth and go out of your way to discuss "polyamory" in moral terms.

    "God's gold standard is monogamy or to remain single. It appears as if several atheist leaders and many atheists do not have the same standard."

    First of all, saying "several" or "many" atheists is completely unsubstantiated and as honest as saying "many" Christians bomb abortion clinics. You can't even decipher from any of your "evidence" who is engaging in polyamory, perhaps "many" Christians are as well? Secondly, god's "gold standard" is a standard for marriage not dating. You're welcome to think differently but, as with most of the bible, your interpretation is no better or worse than anyone else'. Finally....god's standard on dating (if it exists)is your standard, if you want to follow it that's your choice but thankfully the rest of us don't have to follow silly, interpretive standards that make little sense to anyone who doesn't use a 2000 year old book to run their lives.

  4. A Christian Polyamory site

    and another...

    and another...

    and those were just 3 on the first Google Search page!!!

    I guess polyamory is not just for Atheists!

  5. “Barna did not include this enlightening fact in his research. Thus, if 21% of atheists divorce after marriage, and 45 % break up once or more before marriage, what we have is the astounding rate of about 66% of atheist couples experiencing ‘at least’ one break up. If, however, the number is 37%, then we have a shocking figure of 82%" this what you consider statistical analysis? You couldn't pass a High School level statistics course with this poor work. How many people, in general, never experience a break-up? DO you think most Christians marry the first person they date typically? Do Christian couples(married or not)rarely break-up?

    There are a whole lot of bad assumptions and poor logic being employed in that quote.

  6. Wingman,

    I received an above average grade in my last statistics class which was at the university level. That puts the kibosh on your irrelevant and unnecessary snide comment, doesn't it?

    Second, God's not going to lower his standards in any area and God's standards are far higher than yours. And after all is said and done, you need to repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. You will stand before Him and give an account.

    1. Hello,

      Just wanted to point out that wingman had a valid point, when it came to the statistics.

      In terms of break ups, is it unsusual for Christians to have dated more than one person in their life? (And I do not mean at the same time.) I ask this because it seems, at least in the region of North America that I am currently in, that it is normal to have a couple break ups. After all, not everyone is lucky enough to find their life partner on their first try. Don't you think judging through break ups is a bit harsh and unfair? If not, why? And what are the break up statistics of Christian couples?

      Also, what is the divorce rate of Christians? Just to compare. And on top of that, it must be considered that not every marriage is a happy one. Is it not possible that religeous couples could feel pressured to stay together despite possible problems? Such as, perhaps, spousal abuse?

      Now I know you may say that those people would then not be considered true Christians, despite their saying so. But the same could be said for self proclaimed atheists that perhaps, do not all have the same idea of what an atheist is. The fact remains that the originally mentioned (hypothetical) problem couple have name themselves as Christians, and would, in this hypothetical situation, feels pressures because of their faith (as well as expectations of family influenced by their faith). For this reason, they would still be a considered part of a valid statistic of Christian couples.

      This is also the reason why statistics are difficult things to use when making a point, wouldn't you say?

      I'm sorry for the long post. I'm sure you already knew all this, considering you did so well in your university level statistics class. It was more clarification to any later viewers, as well as a clarification of wingman's unhappiness on the subject. Thank you for taking the time to read, and I look forward to your answers on these troubling questions.

      P.S. While I understand you wish to convert people, please do not answer my questions by saying one should repent and accept Jesus. You have used statistics and implied you have facts, sir. Responding without them, and simply saying god's standards are high is not really an answer, I'm sorry to say. That said, I am interested to see what you have to say on the matter.

      Once again, thank you for your time.

  7. Wellheriamnow,

    First, I am not going to say that divorce is ok except for the reasons Jesus gave.

    Second, it is worth noting that high percentage of muderers, rapists, etc. came from fatherless homes. This source says, "A majority of prisoners, juvenile detention inmates, high school dropouts, pregnant teenagers, adolescent murderers and rapists all come from fatherless homes" (Father Facts (Lancaster, Pennsylvania: National Fatherhood Initiative, 1996); Cynthia Daniels, ed., Lost Fathers: The Politics of Fatherlessness in America (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1998). See:

    Third, there are many people who self-identify as Christians, but they hold unbiblical/unchristian views such a reincarnation (Hinduism), etc. etc. I attended a Bible reading Christian congregation with about 200 people and it was my first church. Only one couple divorced and when they met the pastor for a pre-marriage meeting for one reason another he suggested they not marry each other or they were not ready for marriage. They divorced but then later remarried each other. That is a pretty good record in many countries for a church.

    I am guessing divorces among Christians depends on how immature the culture is, how solid the church is, their families, and obviously how solid the couple is. From what I have seen, all other things remaining equal, Bible believers are better prepared for marriage success.

    Lastly, since divorce is lengthy topic and it is only tangentially related to polyamory. I am not going to be posting a lot of comments on this matter.

  8. Austin Fischer,

    If you want us to pay attention to you and what you have to say, first you need to show it's worthwhile doing so. Accept our debate offer and carry through with it.

    Until you do, we are not going to listen. You certainly do not appear to be sincere, but merely appear to be a poser.

    Don't count on your comments being read or posted until you accept our debate offer.


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